WEBVTT

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>>> WELCOME TO THE FOURTH HOUR

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OF "MORNING JOE."

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IT’S 6:00 A.M. ON THE WEST

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COAST, 9:00 A.M. IN THE EAST.

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WE’RE GOING TO GET TO THE VERY

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LATEST FROM THE REPUBLICAN

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NATIONAL CONVENTION IN JUST A

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MOMENT, BUT WE BEGIN THIS HOUR

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WITH THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE

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ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT OF FORMER

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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

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QUESTIONS ARE MOUNTING ABOUT THE

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ROLE OF THE U.S. SECRET SERVICE

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AND HOW THEY LET A GUNMAN GET

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WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF THE

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FORMER PRESIDENT AND THE

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REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.

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NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT STEPHANIE

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GOSK HAS THE LATEST.

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>> Reporter: IN THE WEEKS

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LEADING UP TO DONALD TRUMP’S

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RALLY IN PENNSYLVANIA WE’RE NOW

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LEARNING THERE WAS ALREADY

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INCREASED SECURITY AROUND THE

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FORMER PRESIDENT, AFTER U.S.

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OFFICIALS OBTAINED INTELLIGENCE

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THAT THERE MAY BE AN IRANIAN

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PLOT TO ASSASSINATE HIM.

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THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL

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EMPHASIZES THERE’S NO CONNECTION

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BETWEEN THE ALLEGED IRANIAN

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THREAT AND SATURDAY’S SHOOTING

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BY GUNMAN THOMAS CROOKS.

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>> HE’S ON THE ROOF.

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RIGHT THERE.

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FLAT ON THE ROOF.

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>> Reporter: FROM THE REPUBLICAN

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CONVENTION ERIC TRUMP VENTED HIS

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FRUSTRATION OVER THE SECURITY

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OPERATION AT HIS FATHER’S RALLY.

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>> THERE WAS A BREAKDOWN AND

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THEY BETTER GET TO THE BOTTOM OF

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IT.

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>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO

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MULTIPLE OFFICIALS WHO HAVE

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SPOKEN WITH NBC NEWS, THERE WERE

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WARNINGS ABOUT CROOKS BEFORE HE

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OPENED FIRE.

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BUTLER TOWNSHIP MANAGER TOM

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KNIGHTS SAID ONE OF HIS POLICE

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OFFICERS LOCKED EYES WITH THE

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GUNMAN ON THE ROOFTOP.

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>> HE WAS ABLE TO PULL HIS HEAD

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UP OVER THE ROOF, HE DID, IN

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FACT, SEE AN INDIVIDUAL ON THE

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ROOF WITH A WEAPON.

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>> Reporter: KNIGHTS SAID THAT

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OFFICER WAS RESPONDING TO A

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REPORT OF A SUSPICIOUS PERSON

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AND THAT OTHER POLICE OFFICERS

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HELPED BOOST HIM UP TO TAKE A

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LOOK.

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>> AND WHAT DID THE SHOOTER DO?

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>> TURNED TOWARDS HIM, HAD THE

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BARREL OF HIS WEAPON POINTED AT

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THE OFFICER.

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>> AND AT THAT POINT THE OFFICER

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IS HANGING ON?

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>> YES.

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>> TO THE SIDE OF THE ROOF?

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>> YES.

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>> UNABLE TO PULL A GUN OUT.

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>> UNABLE --

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>> UNABLE TO DEFEND HIMSELF,

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UNABLE TO REACH HIS RADIO.

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>> ANY OF THAT, YEAH.

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YEAH.

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STRICTLY DEFENSIVE MOVEMENT FOR

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HIM TO LOWER HIS HEAD, DUCK.

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>> Reporter: KNIGHTS SAYS BUTLER

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TOWNSHIP POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS

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NOT THE LOCAL AGENCY RESPONSIBLE

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FOR SECURING THE ROOFTOP.

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THE SECRET SERVICE SAYS THE

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BUILDING WAS OUTSIDE THEIR

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SECURITY PERIMETER AND WAS

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PRIMARILY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF

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LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

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SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR KIMBERLY

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CHEATLE TELLING ABC NEWS THE

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AGENCY DECIDED TO SECURE THE

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BUILDING FROM THE INSIDE FOR

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SAFETY CONCERNS BECAUSE OF ITS

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SLOPED ROOF AT ITS HIGHEST

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POINT.

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>> NBC’S STEPHANIE GOSK WITH

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THAT REPORT.

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AND WE JUST LEARNED THE

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DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND

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SECURITY’S INSPECTOR GENERAL

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SAYS IT HAS OPENED UP AN

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INVESTIGATION INTO THE SECRET

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SERVICE’S HANDLING OF SECURITY

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DURING FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD

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TRUMP’S SATURDAY RALLY.

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JOINING US NOW WITH NEW

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REPORTING ON THIS IS NATIONAL

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INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER AT THE

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"WASHINGTON POST" CAROL LOENNIG.

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>> THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

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WE’VE TALKED ABOUT SOME SECRET

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SERVICE PROBLEMS IN THE PAST.

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>> SHE’S WRITTEN A BOOK ON IT.

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>> YOU’VE OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN A

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BOOK ABOUT THE SECRET SERVICE.

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I’D LOVE FOR YOU TO HELP PROVIDE

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CONTEXT TO EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED

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ON SATURDAY.

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FIRST OF ALL, THE CLEAR SHOT TO

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THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED

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STATES, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE

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UNITED STATES, POSSIBLE FUTURE

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OF THE UNITED STATES, AGAIN, FOR

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PEOPLE LOOKING AT THE OVERHEAD

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SHOT IT JUST -- IT’S DUMB

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FOUNDING.

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AND I WILL SAY -- LET ME SHOW

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YOU THIS VIDEO FROM THE "WALL

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STREET JOURNAL," PUT UP ON THEIR

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INSTAGRAM.

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ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE,

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SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN --

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>> OKAY.

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TAKE IT DOWN NOW.

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>> NINE SECONDS.

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SO NINE SECONDS, TEN SECONDS

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THEY LEAVE -- THEY LEAVE THE

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PRESIDENT OPEN FOR A SECOND,

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THIRD, FOURTH SHOOTER.

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THEY HAVE NO -- SOMEBODY SAID,

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OH, THEY SAID SHOOTER IS DOWN.

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WELL, THE ASSUMPTION ALWAYS IS

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THAT THERE MAY BE MORE THAN ONE.

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>> TOTALLY.

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>> AND I’M JUST SURPRISED --

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>> TOTALLY, JOE.

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>> WE HEARD THE STORY ABOUT DICK

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CHENEY BEING LIFTED UP OUT OF

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THE WHITE HOUSE AND SHOVED DOWN

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STAIRS.

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WE’VE HEARD THE STORY ABOUT

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GEORGE W. BUSH YELLING ABOUT

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GETTING BACK TO WASHINGTON, THE

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SECRET SERVICE SAYING THIS AIN’T

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YOUR PLANE, IT’S OUR PLANE, WE

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WILL TELL YOU WHEN YOU CAN GO

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BACK.

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THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS,

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INDEPENDENTS AND DEMOCRATS

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WONDERING WHY DIDN’T THEY DO

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WHAT SECRET SERVICE PEOPLE

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ALWAYS DO, PUT THE PROTECTEE’S

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HEAD DOWN, COVER HIM UP AND

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SHOVE HIM INTO A CAR?

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>> WELL, JOE, AND MIKA, YOU BOTH

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ZEROED IN ON THE TWO MOST

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IMPORTANT THINGS, BUT LET’S PUT

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THEM IN ORDER.

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THE FIRST ONE IS THAT BUILDING

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AND THAT LINE OF SIGHT.

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FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS THE

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SECRET SERVICE AGENTS WHO PLAN

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THE ADVANCE FOR ANY PUBLIC EVENT

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LOSE SLEEP FOR DAYS BEFORE THAT

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EVENT THINKING ABOUT WHERE CAN

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THERE BE A SPOT ON HIGH GROUND

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WHERE SOMEBODY COULD GET A CLEAR

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SHOT AT THE PRESIDENT?

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OR WHOMEVER I’M PROTECTING, AS

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THE SECRET SERVICE, AND THAT MAY

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BE, IN THIS CASE, THE FORMER

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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

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THAT’S WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT.

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I WAS INTERVIEWING A S.W.A.T.

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TEAM COMMANDER YESTERDAY WHO WAS

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NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS

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EVENT, BUT HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN

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OTHER PENNSYLVANIA EVENTS IN

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THAT REGION, AND HE SAID, MA’AM,

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140 YARDS FROM THE STAGE, YOUR

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GRANDMOTHER COULD SHOOT DONALD

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TRUMP FROM THERE.

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IT’S JUST SORT OF STUNNING THAT

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NO -- NOBODY WAS ON THE ROOF AND

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THAT THE DIRECTOR OF THE SECRET

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SERVICE IS SAYING NOBODY WAS ON

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THE ROOF AND POSTED AROUND IT

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BECAUSE IT WAS SLOPED AND,

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THEREFORE, MORE DANGEROUS.

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I DON’T KNOW IF THAT’S RIGHT OR

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WRONG, THAT IT’S TOO DANGEROUS

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TO DO THAT, I’M NOT AN AGENT,

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BUT I’VE HEARD FROM ABOUT TWO

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DOZEN AGENTS IN THE WAKE OF THIS

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WHO SAID THAT’S PREPOSTEROUS.

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WE SHOULD HAVE LOCKED DOWN THIS

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BUILDING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND

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IT’S NOT THE LOCALS’

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RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THE PLAN

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FOR HOW TO SECURE IT.

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THE SECOND THING IS YOU

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MENTIONED DONALD TRUMP FIRST

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PUMPING.

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THAT’S ANOTHER THING AGENTS

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CURRENTER AND FORMER ARE PRETTY

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UPSET ABOUT.

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UPSET BECAUSE THERE COULD BE

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ANOTHER GUY ON THE HORIZON AFTER

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THE COUNTERSNIPER AMAZINGLY WITH

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ONE SHOT TAKES OUT MATTHEW

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CROOKS AS SOON AS HIS WEAPON IS

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RAISED.

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IT’S AMAZING THAT THAT GUY IS

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BASICALLY NEUTRALIZED ALMOST

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INSTANTLY, NOT FAST ENOUGH, BUT

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ALMOST INSTANTLY UPON BEING

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DETERMINED TO BE A THREAT.

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BUT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN

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ANOTHER PERSON.

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BUT IN DONALD TRUMP’S SECURITY

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BUBBLE, HE -- YOU CAN HEAR HIM

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ON THE VIDEO SAYING THAT HE

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WANTS TO GET HIS SHOES, YOU

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KNOW, HE’S LIKE SAYING, WAIT A

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MINUTE, WAIT A MINUTE, LET ME

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GET MY SHOES, LET ME DO THIS.

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THOSE AGENTS ARE PUTTING THEIR

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BICEPS AND THEIR SHOULDERS IN

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FRONT OF HIS FACE TRYING TO

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COVER HIM, BUT THEY’RE ALSO

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DEFERRING TO HIM AND THAT IS SO

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DIFFERENT, JOE, THAN WHAT YOU

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DESCRIBE ABOUT THAT MOMENT WITH

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DICK CHENEY, RIGHT?

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HIS AGENT LIFTED HIM BY THE BELT

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LOOP AND SAID WE’RE GONE, SIR.

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SORRY, NO MORE TIME TO TALK.

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>> SO, CAROL, I’M READING YOUR

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NEW PIECE TITLED "POLICE SNIPERS

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WERE INSIDE THE BUILDING AS

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TRUMP RALLY SHOOTER FIRED FROM

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THE ROOF" AND YOU GET AT

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SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT IS

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YOU’VE ESTABLISHED NOW THAT

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LOCAL POLICE WERE IN CHARGE OF

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THAT BUILDING, A LOT OF PEOPLE

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SECOND GUESSING THAT, AS YOU

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SAY, AS WELL, BUT THAT THEY

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ACTUALLY NOTICED A MAN -- I’M

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JUST READING FROM YOUR PIECE

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NOW -- LOCAL POLICE SPOTTED A

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MAN ACTING FURTIVELY FROM INSIDE

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THAT BUILDING, HE WAS WALKING

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BACK AND FORTH WITH SOME GEAR

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AND THEY RADIOED A SECRET

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SERVICE COMMAND POST TO ALERT

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THEM, OFFICIALS SAID.

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SO AT THAT POINT HE’S STILL

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OUTSIDE, THE POLICE SEE HIM,

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PRESUMABLY IT TOOK HIM SOME TIME

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TO GET UP ON TO THE ROOF WITH

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THAT GEAR.

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HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE LAPSE

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BETWEEN THE TIME WHEN LOCAL

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POLICE ACCORDING TO YOUR

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REPORTING DID SPOT THIS GUY AND

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THE TIME THE SHOOTING TOOK

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PLACE?

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>> SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF

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THINGS THERE WHICH ARE REALLY

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IMPORTANT TO NOTICE, WILLIE,

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WHICH ARE, ONE, REMEMBER THE

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SECRET SERVICE MAKES THE PLAN

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AND WE HAVE HEARD A LOT OF

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DIFFERENT REPORTS, SOME OF WHICH

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WE’RE TRYING TO SORT OF NAIL

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DOWN RIGHT NOW, BUT ONE OF THE

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THINGS I HEARD LAST NIGHT FROM

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PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE GROUND

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WAS THAT THE -- THAT THE

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INDIVIDUAL LOCAL POLICE OFFICERS

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STATIONED INSIDE THAT

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BUILDING -- BY THE WAY, THEY

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WERE COUNTERSNIPERS -- THEY

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COMPLAINED, LOOK, WE’RE

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COUNTERSNIPERS, WE ARE NOT A LOT

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OF USE IF WE’RE NOT ON HIGH

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GROUND LOOKING OVER THE WHOLE

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PLACE.

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IT’S HARD TO BE A COUNTERSNIPER

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INSIDE A BUILDING.

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BUT THEY WERE STATIONED THERE

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AND THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT

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THEY COULDN’T ESSENTIALLY LEAVE

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THEIR POST, HENCE THEIR

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COMMUNICATION, WE HAVE A

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SUSPICIOUS GUY, JUST WANT YOU TO

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KNOW.

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I HAVE CONFIRMED THAT THE SECRET

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SERVICE COMMAND POST WAS

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LISTENING TO RADIOFREQUENCY

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ABOUT LOCAL POLICE ENGAGING WITH

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A SUSPICIOUS INDIVIDUAL WHO

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TURNED OUT TO BE CROOKS, AND THE

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COUNTERSNIPER, WHOSE NAME WE ARE

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NOT SHARING AT THIS MOMENT, THE

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COUNTERSNIPER ACTUALLY HAD

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CROOKS IN HIS SIGHTS DURING THIS

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MOMENT, WAS TRYING TO ASSESS IS

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HE A THREAT?

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DOES HE HAVE A GUN?

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WITH THE SLOPE OF THE ROOF OFF

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IN THE DISTANCE, THEY

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COULDN’T -- THE SNIPER WAS STILL

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TRYING TO DISCERN IS THIS JUST A

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PERSON?

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IS THIS AN HVAC REPAIRMAN?

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YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING ON?

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TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS THIS

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PERSON AN ACTUAL THREAT TO THE

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STAGE AND TO THE FORMER

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PRESIDENT.

09:22.705 --> 09:24.725
AND WHEN THE GUN WAS LIFTED AND

09:24.726 --> 09:25.229
SHOT.

09:25.264 --> 09:26.797
THAT’S WHEN THE COUNTERSNIPER

09:26.798 --> 09:27.911
TOOK HIM OUT.

09:27.912 --> 09:29.701
BUT THE RADIOFREQUENCY AT THE

09:29.703 --> 09:31.623
TIME FOR THE COMMAND POST WAS

09:31.634 --> 09:33.508
ALERTING THE COUNTERSNIPER TEAMS

09:33.509 --> 09:36.326
TO THIS SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY AT

09:36.337 --> 09:40.150
THE AGR BUILDING, AGAIN, THAT

09:40.161 --> 09:44.361
VERY OBVIOUS RISK 140 YARDS FROM

09:44.372 --> 09:46.766
DONALD TRUMP’S STAGE.

09:46.801 --> 09:51.559
>> AND, CAROL, LET’S JUST MAKE A

09:51.560 --> 09:53.707
BAD SITUATION EVEN WORSE FOR THE

09:53.708 --> 09:54.775
SECRET SERVICE.

09:54.786 --> 09:57.235
THEY KNEW -- WE FOUND OUT

09:57.246 --> 10:00.909
YESTERDAY -- THEY WERE MADE

10:00.911 --> 10:03.433
AWARE OF AN IRANIAN PLOT TO

10:03.444 --> 10:05.601
ASSASSINATE DONALD TRUMP.

10:05.612 --> 10:09.473
SO THEY WERE ON NOTICE THAT

10:09.475 --> 10:12.637
OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, DOMESTIC

10:12.639 --> 10:16.069
THREATS, THAT YOU HAD THE

10:16.080 --> 10:17.735
IRANIAN GOVERNMENT PLANNING TO

10:17.770 --> 10:20.856
ASSASSINATE DONALD TRUMP.

10:20.857 --> 10:24.948
AND EVEN WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE,

10:24.959 --> 10:27.128
THEIR PERFORMANCE ON SATURDAY

10:27.139 --> 10:29.701
JUST ALL THE MORE SHOCKING.

10:29.712 --> 10:32.159
>> YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY

10:32.194 --> 10:34.174
YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT

10:34.185 --> 10:37.310
HOW SHOCKING IT IS, BUT I -- YOU

10:37.344 --> 10:39.545
KNOW, I KNOW ENOUGH AGENTS AND I

10:39.556 --> 10:41.041
KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE SECRET

10:41.052 --> 10:42.695
SERVICE TO KNOW THEY WORK THEIR

10:42.706 --> 10:43.916
TAILS OFF.

10:43.927 --> 10:46.172
THEY TRY THEIR ABSOLUTE HARDEST.

10:46.206 --> 10:49.417
ONE THING THAT I’M LOOKING AT

10:49.419 --> 10:52.089
AND EXAMINING IS THE ADVANCED

10:52.091 --> 10:54.772
SECURITY PLAN POTENTIALLY HAVING

10:54.783 --> 10:56.382
SOME MAJOR VULNERABILITIES AND

10:56.393 --> 10:57.528
FLAWS, MOSTLY INVOLVING IN

10:57.563 --> 10:59.175
OUTSIDE BUILDING THAT WASN’T

10:59.186 --> 11:00.613
VERY OUTSIDE, WASN’T VERY FAR

11:00.624 --> 11:01.274
AWAY.

11:01.309 --> 11:04.567
REMEMBER, MY GRANDMA COULD HAVE

11:04.569 --> 11:06.465
KILLED TRUMP FROM THERE.

11:06.476 --> 11:08.782
BUT THESE GUYS AND WOMEN WORK

11:08.815 --> 11:09.982
LIKE CRAZY DURING A CAMPAIGN

11:09.993 --> 11:10.280
SEASON.

11:10.314 --> 11:12.462
ARE THEY GETTING THE SUPPORT AND

11:12.463 --> 11:14.553
THE RESOURCES THEY NEED?

11:14.554 --> 11:17.548
YOU KNOW, I WAS TOLD THAT THE

11:17.559 --> 11:18.929
COUNTERSNIPER UNITS ARE DOWN

11:18.930 --> 11:21.495
BELOW 20 INDIVIDUALS RIGHT NOW

11:21.529 --> 11:22.994
BECAUSE OF ATTRITION AND

11:23.005 --> 11:23.610
RETIREMENT.

11:23.621 --> 11:25.579
I WAS TOLD THE COUNTERASSAULT

11:25.580 --> 11:27.413
TEAMS -- REMEMBER, THERE WERE

11:27.424 --> 11:28.883
ONLY TWO SECRET SERVICE

11:28.894 --> 11:30.314
COUNTERASSAULT AGENTS, THOSE ARE

11:30.325 --> 11:32.055
THE BLACK TACTICAL GEAR GUYS WHO

11:32.090 --> 11:33.887
JUMPED UP ON THE STAGE, HAD HE

11:33.898 --> 11:35.313
EVER I WILL ARMED TO COVER TRUMP

11:35.324 --> 11:37.244
SO THAT THE DETAIL COULD WHISK

11:37.245 --> 11:38.407
HIM AWAY, ONLY TWO OF THEM

11:38.408 --> 11:39.474
THERE.

11:39.509 --> 11:42.308
I’M TOLD THE COUNTERASSAULT TEAM

11:42.319 --> 11:44.694
IS DOWN BELOW 35.

11:44.728 --> 11:47.065
THAT MEANS THERE’S ONLY REALLY

11:47.076 --> 11:48.094
THREE, MAYBE FULL COUNTERASSAULT

11:48.105 --> 11:49.654
TEAMS IN THE SECRET SERVICE

11:49.688 --> 11:52.375
RIGHT NOW IF THESE SOURCES ARE

11:52.376 --> 11:54.586
RIGHT, AND I EMPHASIZE IF THESE

11:54.597 --> 11:56.718
SOURCES ARE RIGHT, AND THAT

11:56.719 --> 11:59.053
MEANS THE SERVICE IS ONCE AGAIN

11:59.054 --> 12:01.427
STRETCHED TOO THIN, WHICH IS

12:01.438 --> 12:04.023
EXACTLY THE FINDING OF BOTH

12:04.034 --> 12:06.824
HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE RUN BY

12:06.835 --> 12:08.714
ELIJAH COUPLE MINUTES AND JASON

12:08.725 --> 12:11.338
CHAFFETZ IN 2015 AND THE

12:11.372 --> 12:13.388
FINDINGS OF A BLUE RIBBON PANEL

12:13.399 --> 12:14.699
APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA.

12:14.733 --> 12:17.219
THAT THE AGENCY JUST DIDN’T --

12:17.230 --> 12:19.142
WAS OPERATING ON DUCT TAPE AND

12:19.176 --> 12:20.076
STAPLES, ESPECIALLY DURING A

12:20.087 --> 12:21.034
CAMPAIGN SEASON.

12:21.045 --> 12:22.996
THAT RUNNING FROM PILLAR TO POST

12:23.007 --> 12:25.460
IS WHAT THESE GUYS AND WOMEN ARE

12:25.494 --> 12:28.117
TRYING TO DO AND THEY JUST DON’T

12:28.128 --> 12:29.685
HAVE ENOUGH BACKING TO GET THIS

12:29.696 --> 12:30.394
JOB DONE.

12:30.405 --> 12:32.293
THERE’S ONE OTHER ELEMENT WHICH

12:32.327 --> 12:34.061
IS THEY REALLY RELIED HEAVILY ON

12:34.062 --> 12:36.603
LOCAL POLICE HERE FOR SOME OF

12:36.614 --> 12:37.981
THEIR TACTICAL PURPOSES AND

12:37.982 --> 12:39.482
THOSE OFFICERS WHO WERE

12:39.484 --> 12:41.701
COUNTERSNIPERS FROM THE LOCAL

12:41.712 --> 12:43.374
AREA INSIDE THAT AGR BUILDING,

12:43.408 --> 12:45.371
HOW USEFUL IS IT FOR THEM TO BE

12:45.372 --> 12:46.381
INSIDE THE BUILDING?

12:46.392 --> 12:48.308
THEY’RE IN THERE BECAUSE THE

12:48.309 --> 12:49.172
SECRET SERVICE INSTRUCTED THEM

12:49.183 --> 12:50.509
TO BE THERE.

12:50.520 --> 12:52.938
THEY WANTED TO RELY, IT SEEMS TO

12:52.972 --> 12:55.106
ME, ON THEIR OWN TEAM, BUT IF

12:55.117 --> 12:56.450
YOU DON’T HAVE ENOUGH TEAMS,