WEBVTT

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CONVICTS AHEAD OF THEIR

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SENTENCING, DONALD TRUMP FACES A

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PROBATION OFFICER AND THAT’S

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WHERE WE BEGIN.

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JOINING US NOW, NBC NEWS

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CORRESPONDENT, VAUGHN HILLYARD,

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MSNBC LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, LISA

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RUBIN, AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE

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ATTORNEY AND FORMER FEDERAL

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PROSECUTOR DUNCAN LEVIN.

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LISA, PROBATION OFFICER, THAT

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INTERVIEWED, HAS IT HAPPENED

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YET?

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>> WE DON’T KNOW IF IT’S

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HAPPENED ALREADY.

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ALREADY TWO THINGS THAT ARE

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UNUSUAL.

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IT’S OCCURRING ELECTRONICALLY,

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THOUGH THAT’S PERMITTED UNDER

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NEW YORK CITY LAW AND

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REGULATIONS.

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THE SECOND IS THAT TODD BLANCHE

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IS GOING TO BE AT HIS CLIENT’S

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SIDE, AND HAD TO GET JUDGE

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MERCHAN’S PERMISSION IN ORDER TO

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MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

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MIGHT ASK, WHY DO YOU NEED YOUR

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LAWYER NEXT TO YOU, AND I’M

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GOING TO TELL YOU WHY, THE

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PROBATION DEPARTMENT’S

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GUIDELINES FOR CONDUCTING THE

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INTERVIEW INCLUDE THE LISTENING

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FROM THE DEFENDANT, A STATEMENT

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ABOUT THEIR ALLEGED CRIME, A

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CRIME THAT HAS LED TO A JURY

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VERDICT.

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IF YOU’RE TODD BLANCHE AND YOUR

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CLIENT HAS THREE ADDITIONAL

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CRIMINAL CASES AGAINST HIM AS

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WELL AS THE SENTENCING COMING

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UP, YOU’RE GOING TO WANT TO MAKE

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SURE THAT THAT STATEMENT, IF HE

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MAKES ONE AT ALL IS AS BUTTONED

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UP AND CIRCUMSCRIBED AS IT CAN

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BE.

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>> BECAUSE IT CAN BE USED

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AGAINST YOU IN OTHER CASES?

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>> IT COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU

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IN THIS SITUATION.

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REMEMBER, THIS IS A PERSON WHO

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MIGHT WANT THE WORLD TO SEE

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WHAT’S IN THE PROBATION REPORT,

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EVEN IF PARTS ARE ANTITHETICAL

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TO HIS BEST INTERESTS, HE MAY

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PUT THIS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN,

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WEAPONIZED AGAINST THEM.

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>> THIS IS STANDARD, DUNCAN,

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WHAT EVERYONE GOES THROUGH WHEN

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THESK

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THEY HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A

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FELONY.

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>> THE WORLD IS SEEING THERE’S

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NOT A LOT OF STANDARDS IN THE

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NEW YORK CITY COURTROOMS, CASES

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ARE DIFFERENT AND DONE

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DIFFERENTLY, IN THE FEDERAL

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SYSTEM, WHICH PRACTITIONERS ARE

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USED TO.

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THERE’S A PROBATION REPORT

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THAT’S MADE.

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THE LAWYERS ARE ROUTINELY THERE

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AS PART OF THE PROBATION

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INTERVIEW.

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HERE THAT’S NOT THE CASE.

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AND JUDGE MERCHAN HAD TO GIVE AN

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ORDER TO TODD BLANCHE TO ALLOW

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HIM IN THERE.

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THERE HAVE BEEN CASES WHERE

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THERE IS NO PROBATION INTERVIEW,

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WHERE THE JUDGE GOES DIRECTLY TO

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SENTENCE.

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THERE ARE CASES WHERE THERE ARE

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NO SENTENCING REPORTS AND THE

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JUDGE JUST IMPOSED THE SENTENCE.

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IN THIS CASE IN PARTICULAR,

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BECAUSE IT’S SO HIGH PROFILE,

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EVERYTHING IS DONE BY THE BOOK.

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THIS IS JUST AN EXCEPTION TO THE

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RULE.

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>> LET’S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER

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BIG THING THAT’S HAPPENING,

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THAT’S JANUARY 6th.

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AND ALL THE FALLOUT THAT STILL

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REMAINS.

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THERE’S NOT GOING TO BE A TRIAL

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ANYTIME SOON IT LOOKS LIKE.

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LET’S TALK ABOUT WHAT DONALD

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TRUMP HAS BEEN SAYING ON THE

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CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

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I JUST PLAYED IT A MOMENT AGO.

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CALLING THE JANUARY 6th VIOLENT

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CONFLICTS WARRIORS, WHY WOULD HE

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USE A TERM LIKE WARRIORS?

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>> I DON’T KNOW WHY HE WOULD,

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BUT HE DID.

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AND IT WAS THERE AT THAT RALLY

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IN LAS VEGAS WHEN HE DID THAT,

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AND OF COURSE MY EARS PERKED UP.

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THERE’S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF VALOR

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ESTABLISHED ON AN INDIVIDUAL

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WHEN YOU ARE DESIGNATING THEM TO

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BE WARRIORS.

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WARRIORS IN THE CONNOTATION IS

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SOMEBODY WHO IS GOING AND

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FIGHTING ON BEHALF OF A CAUSE OF

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A POTENTIALLY GOOD CAUSE.

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THE JANUARY 6th ATTACKERS WERE

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NOT FIGHTING ON BEHALF OF A GOOD

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CAUSE, AND DONALD TRUMP HAS HELD

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UP INDIVIDUALS WHO HE CALLED

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PATRIOTS IN THE PAST.

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HE, YESTERDAY, PRAISED THEM AND

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SAID THEY HAD BEEN TREATED

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HORRIBLY, THE JANUARY 6th

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DEFENDANTS.

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THERE WAS ONE INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS

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JUST RELEASED FROM PRISON A

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COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO IN THAT

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CROWD.

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THIS FOR DONALD TRUMP IS A PART

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OF CASTING A SORT OF SYMPATHETIC

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LIGHT ON THESE INDIVIDUALS AND

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WHAT THEY WERE DOING BECAUSE IF

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HE IS GOING TO TAKE THE POSITION

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THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, HE

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IS GOING TO GO AND DEFEND THOSE

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WHO ARE TRYING TO KEEP IT FROM

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ULTIMATELY PUTTING JOE BIDEN IN

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THE WHITE HOUSE.

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>> DO WE KNOW WHAT HE PLANS ON

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DOING WITH THE CONVICTIONS IF

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HE’S REELECTED?

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>> HE HAS DANGLED THE PROSPECT

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OF PARDONING THEM.

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HE HAS PLEDGED TO DO THAT AS ONE

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OF THE FIRST THREE ACTS ON DAY

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ONE.

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WHEN YOU GET INTO THE

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NITTY-GRITTY OF THE EXACT

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ACTINGS, HE HASACTS,

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HE HAS DEFLECTED.

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>> WHAT CONVICTIONS ARE THESE?

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>> THEY’RE CONVICTIONS FOR

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OBSTRUCTION OF AN OFFICIAL

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PROCEEDING IN MANY CASES.

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THERE ARE ALSO CONVICTIONS FOR

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ESSENTIALLY LIKE BREAKING AND

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ENTERING WITH RESPECT TO

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GOVERNMENT PROPERTY.

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THEY RUN THE GAMUT, KATY.

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>> THERE ARE SOME FOR VIOLENTLY

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BEATING UP POLICE OFFICERS.

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>> THERE’S SOME FOR THE STATUTE,

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CURRENTLY BEING HELD BY THE

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UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.

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THEY ARE DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT

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THE SECTION 15 AND 12

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APPROPRIATELY EXTENDS TO SOME OF

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THE CONDUCT BY THE PEOPLE WHO

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BROKE INTO THE CONGRESS.

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BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE

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THAT HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH

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ASSAULT AND BREAKING AND

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ENTERING AND TRESPASSING.

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>> HE SAYS HE’S FOR LAW AND

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ORDER AND POLICE OFFICERS.

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HOW DOES THAT LINE UP SAYING

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THESE CONVICTS, VIOLENT DERCHERS

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DEFENDERS, WARRIORS, THEY ARE ON

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CAMERA GOING AFTER AND BLOODYING

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UP POLICE OFFICERS?

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>> THERE IS A FANTASY ABOUT WHAT

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PLAYED OUT ON THAT DAY, THAT I

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KEEP COMING BACK TO.

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I WAS AMONG THE CROWD BEFORE

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THEY WENT INTO THE RALLY, AND I

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WAS ASKING ONE GENTLEMAN ABOUT

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THE FACT THAT CAPITOL POLICE

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OFFICERS WERE BRUTALLY BEATEN

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AND HE SAID AND TOLD ME THAT

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THEY WERE WELCOMED IN, AND,

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AGAIN, THIS GOES IN THEY WERE

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THE INSTIGATORS WERE FBI

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INFORMANTS, WHICH IS NOT

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REALITY, AND I KNOW THAT WE ROLL

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OUR EYES AT THIS, BUT I CANNOT

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TELL YOU, THAT MAN WHO I WAS

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INTERVIEWING, THIS GUY THINKS

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JANUARY 6th WAS BAD, RIGHT, AND

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EVERYBODY BOOED AT ME.

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AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THE

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INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE THE ONES

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ATTACKING WERE NOT ACTUALLY THE
ONES WHO WE KNOW BECAUSE THEY

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ONES WHO WE KNOW BECAUSE THEY

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HAVE PLED GUILTY TO THE CHARGES.

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I DON’T MEAN TO OF EWEBFUSCATE H

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>> THAT DEFIES GRAVITY.

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NO MATTER WHEN HE DOES, HE SAYS

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HE COULD SHOOT SOMEBODY ON 5th

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AVENUE.

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ALL OF US HOLD OUR BREATH AND

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THINK COULD HE GET AWAY WITH

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THAT AND HAVE THAT BE AN HONEST

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QUESTION.

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IN THE NORMAL GRAVITY INVOLVED

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WORLD, NO, OF COURSE YOU

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COULDN’T GET AWAY WITH THAT.

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IN THIS WORLD, MAYBE DONALD

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TRUMP COULD GET AWAY WITH THAT.

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YOU TALK TO VOTERS AT HIS NEVADA

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RALLY, WHAT DO THEY THINK OF

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DONALD TRUMP, THE MAN TODAY

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WHO’S NOW BEEN CONVICTED OF A

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FELONY BY A JURY?

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>> TO THAT POINT, LET’S BE

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CLEAR.

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DONALD TRUMP REPEATS HIMSELF A

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LOT.

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HE REPEATED EVERY TIME HE WALKED

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OUT OF THE COURTROOM FOR SEVEN

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WEEKS, HE REPEATED THE SAME

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LINES, ATTACKING THE JUDGE’S

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DAUGHTER, MATTHEW COANGELO, THE

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NUMBER THREE ON THE D.A.’S TEAM,

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AS BEING SENT FROM THE

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DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

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HE REPEATS HIMSELF OVER AND

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OVER, AND THAT PENETRATES THE

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DIALOGUE ON RIGHT WING MEDIA

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WHICH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE

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TAKING IN.
WHEN I SUGGESTED HE WAS JUST

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WHEN I SUGGESTED HE WAS JUST

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FOUND CONVICTIONEDED BY 12 NEW Y

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YORKERS.

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HE NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO WIN

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THE CASE BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF

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THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE

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DIRECTED BY THE BIDEN DOJ, AND I

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SAY THAT BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP

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HAS REPEATED THIS AND

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CONDITIONED HIS SUPPORTERS TO

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KNOW HOW TO DEFLECT.

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WHEN I SAY FELONY CONVICTION,

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THERE WERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE

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PROUDLY WEARING SHIRTS SAYING

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I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR A FELON.

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>> THEY HAVE THE TALKING POINTS

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ALREADY DOWN.

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>> THEY HAVE THE TALKING POINTS

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DOWN, AND THEY KNOW HOW TO

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DEFEND THE MAN WHO’S RUNNING FOR

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PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

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YOU COULD ASSUME THOSE

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DEFLECTION POINTS OR COMEBACKS

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ARE EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE USING

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INSIDE OF THEIR CHURCHES, KIDS

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SCHOOLS.

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>> LET’S LISTEN SO SOME OF WHAT

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YOU GATHERED.

07:39.094 --> 07:40.145
SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF.

07:40.156 --> 07:41.632
>> I THINK YOU SHOULD OBEY THE

07:41.634 --> 07:42.897
LAW NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, AND

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I THINK HE WOULD OBEY THE LAW.

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IF HE’S BEING FORCED TO GO TO

07:47.512 --> 07:48.856
PRISON, THEN HE’LL GO TO PRISON

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AND SERVE HIS TIME, AND WE WILL

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VOLT HIM INTO OFFICE DESPITE

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THAT.

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>> THAT VOTER, GILBERT IS SAYING

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THERE, AND I THINK HIS VOICE IS

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IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE

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THE SYSTEM IS WORKING AGAINST

07:59.823 --> 08:02.211
THEM, BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT THE

08:02.222 --> 08:04.643
MAGA MOVEMENT IS SO STRONG THAT

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THEY’RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BEAT

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THE RIGGED SYSTEM AGAINST THEM,

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AND THAT’S WHY DONALD TRUMP’S

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LINE IS TOO BIG TO RIG.

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THAT IS THE LINE THAT THEY, FROM

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THE CAMPAIGN IN ARIZONA AND

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NEVADA IS IF WE TURN OUT THE

08:18.504 --> 08:19.757
MAGA MASSES, WE WILL BEAT THEM

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DESPITE THE FRAUD.

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>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS

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WORRYING FOR THIS COMING

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ELECTION, MUCH IN THE SAME WAY

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AHEAD OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

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DONALD TRUMP KEPT GOING OUT

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THERE AND SAYING, THE ONLY WAY I

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COULD LOSE IS IF IT’S IGRIGGED.

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THAT’S HIM SAYING DEMOCRACY WAS

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STOLEN, CONVINCING THEM THAT

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DEMOCRACY WAS STOLEN FROM THEM.

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WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO N?

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IF THEY BELIEVE DEMOCRACY IS

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STOLEN, THEY WILL TAKE UP ARMS.

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THIS IS ANOTHER VERSION OF WHAT

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WE SAW IN 2020.

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I MEAN, I DON’T KNOW IF YOU KNOW

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HOW PREPARED THE FEDERAL

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GOVERNMENT IS, IS THIS THE SORT

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OF THING THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN

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SERIOUSLY, FROM A PROSECUTORIAL

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STANDPOINT.

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>> THE OTHER PART OF IT, NOT TO

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BE MISSED IN ADDITION TO TAKING

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UP ARMS IS THEY’RE STARTING TO

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TAKE UP THE NOTION OF LAWFARE,

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AND EVEN IN THE LAST FEW DAYS,

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CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS TRYING

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TO PUSH A BILL THAT WOULD REMOVE

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SATE CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS TO

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FEDERAL COURT FOR A PRESIDENT OR

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FORMER PRESIDENT.

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BESIDES BEING UNLIKELY

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UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THAT WOULD

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ACTUALLY TAKE OUCH THE HANDS OF

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LOCAL D.A.s EXACTLY WHAT YOU

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SAID, SHOOTING SOMEONE ON FIFTH

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AVENUE.

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THAT WOULD BE UNAVAILABLE TO BE

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PROSECUTED BY A LOCAL D.A. AND

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BROUGHT, SO YOU’RE SEEING THE

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POLITICALIZATION OF THE CRIMINAL

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JUSTICE SYSTEM IN A WAY THAT IS