>>> ALL OF US HAVE A STAKE IN
REBUILDING THE GREAT AMERICAN
MIDDLE CLASS, CREATING LADDERS
INTO IT FROM THE UNDERCLASS AND
RESTORING THE REWARD FOR WORKING
HARD AND PLAYING BY THE RULES.
IF THE RULES HAVE CHANGED
BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY ADVANCING,
BECAUSE OF ROBO KPETCOMPETITORS,
THEN THIS NATION HAS A MORAL
OBLIGATION TO HELP ALL AMERICANS
WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK HARD
PROSPER UNDER THE NEW RULES.
IF THIS SOCIETY IS TO REVERSE
THE LONG-TERM DECLINE IN LIVING
STANDARDS OF AMERICAN WORKERS, A
FAR BUILDER STRATEGY IS NECESSARY.
>> THAT WAS FORMER LABOR
SECRETARY ROBERT REISH BACK IN
1994 WARNING OF A TWO-TIERED
SOCIETY.
JOINING US TOM ROGERS.
TOM’S LATEST PIECE IS TITLED "A
MASTERCLASS IN NOT TREATING THE
WORKING CLASS AS SECOND CLASS."
CONGRATS ON THE BOOK.
LET’S START RIGHT THERE.
TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT
YOU MEAN.
WHAT’S THE THESIS HERE?
>> I STARTED TO NOTICE THAT
DESPITE THE FACT WE TALK ABOUT
POLITICAL POLARIZATION,
AMERICANS ARE NOT DIVIDED LEFT
VERSUS RIGHT, BUT THERE IS A
REAL CLASS DIVIDE EMERGING IN
AMERICAN BETWEEN THE WORKING
CLASS AND THE ELITES.
I WANT TO UNDERSTAND MORE DEEPLY
WHO IS THE AMERICAN WORKING
CLASS, AND DO THEY STILL HAVE A
FAIR SHOT AT THE AMERICAN DREAM.
I TRAVELED THE COUNTRY AND
INTERVIEWED MANY, MANY WORKING
CLASS PEOPLE FROM ALL RACES AND
FROM MANY, MANY INDUSTRIES AND
FROM ALL POLITICAL PERSUASIONS.
WHETHER THESE WORKING CLASS
PEOPLE VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS OR
AMERICANS, THEY AGREE BY AND
LARGE ON ALL OF THE ISSUES.
>> I’VE BEEN NODDING ALONG
VIGOROUSLY.
I THINK ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME.
I WENT TO THE SPRINGSTEEN
ARCHIVES MUSIC HONORS AWARDS LAST WEEK.
THEY HONORED JOHN MELLENCAMP,
"PINK HOUSES" 30 YEARS AGO AND
SECRETARY RICE 30 YEARS AGO
TALKING ABOUT HOW WE DIDN’T
COMPENSATE FROM THE JOBS THAT
WERE LOST.
DEMOCRATS ARE STILL PAYING A BIG
PRICE FOR THAT.
AND TRUMP RALLIES, I TALK TO
PEOPLE.
THERE’S NOT A LOT OF DIFFERENCE
ON THE ISSUES.
IT’S ABOUT RESPECT.
YOUR BOOK TALKS ABOUT SOLUTIONS,
POLICIES THAT WOULD MAKE A
DIFFERENCE OR EVEN JUST
ATTITUDES PERHAPS THAT COULD
MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS WELL.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE FIRST HALF OF THE BOOK ARE
DEEP, IN-DEPTH PROFILES OF
WORKING CLASS AMERICANS FROM
ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM,
WHAT ISSUES MATTER TO THEM AND
WHAT THEY NEED TO HELP THEM
ACCESS THE AMERICAN DREAM TO GET
BACK INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
THE SECOND HALF OF THE BOOK IS A
SERIES OF TOTALLY NONPARTISAN,
EASILY IMPLEMENTABLE SOLUTIONS
THAT WOULD IMMEDIATELY IMPROVE
THE LIVES OF WORKING CLASS
AMERICANS AND GIVE THEM BACK THE
DIGNITY THAT THE DEMOCRATS USED
TO REPRESENT, THE DIGNITY OF
HARD WORK.
>> WHAT IS THE MESSAGE HERE?
PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS THE CAN’T IN
2020
-- CANDIDATE IN 2020 THAT
SEEMED TO REPRESENT THAT WORKING
CLASS, BUT WE’RE STILL SEEING A
SLOW EROSION OF THAT SUPPORT,
WHETHER IT’S ABOUT A DONALD
TRUMP PHENOMENON OR MORE ABOUT
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, HOW CAN
BIDEN REVERSE THAT?
>> THAT’S A VERY KEY QUESTION FOR THIS ELECTION.
WHAT IS VERY CLEAR TO ME IS THAT
THE WORKING CLASS IS TOTALLY
FOCUSED ON THEIR PERSONAL
ECONOMIC SITUATION.
YOU REALLY HAVE TO PERCEIVE WHAT
YOU NEED TO DO TO BREAK THROUGH
AND ATTRACT THAT MIDDLE WORKING
CLASS BASED ON THAT.
FOR THE MOST PART, BIDEN IS IN
SYNC WITH AN AWFUL LOT OF THEIR
CONCERNS.
HEALTH CARE COMES THROUGH HUGELY
IN THE BOOK AND VERY MUCH
BECOMES A BIDEN ISSUE, ONE THAT
THE REPUBLICANS DON’T SCORE ON
AT ALL.
BUT THE ONE WHERE DEMOCRATS AND
BIDEN REALLY FALL SHORT IS
IMMIGRATION.
IT’S NOT BECAUSE THERE’S A KIND
OF TRUMP RACIST VIEW OF
IMMIGRANTS POLLUTING WHITE
CULTURE.
IT’S NOT THAT AT ALL.
THEY VIEW IMMIGRATION AS REAL
ECONOMIC COMPETITION,
UNDERMINING JOB OPPORTUNITY AND
WAGE GROWTH.
THERE SEEMS TO BE AN INCREDIBLE
PASSIVITY PERCEIVED ON THEIR
PART IN TERMS OF DEMOCRATS
ADDRESSING THAT AND THE FACT
THAT THE HOUSE BLEW UP A
BIPARTISAN BILL THAT WOULD HAVE
GONE TO DEAL WITH A LOT OF THIS
ISSUE IS A GOOD TALKING POINT,
BUT THE TALKING POINT DOESN’T
REALLY SEEM TO CHANGE
PERCEPTION.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A MUCH MORE
MUSCULAR RESPONSE OUT OF THE
BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THAT SHOWS
THEY’RE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS
EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF
LEGISLATION THAT SHOULD HAVE
PASSED.
>> WHEN I LISTEN TO YOU TALK AND
READ THE BOOK, ISN’T IT ALSO A
CHALLENGE THAT WE GET PAST THE
THINGS THAT HAVE DIVIDED THE
WORKING CLASS SO THERE’S NOT A
UNITED APPROACH TO THIS?
I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID, 13
YEARS OLD, JUST JOINING DR.
KING’S CHAPTER IN NEW YORK, HE
WAS TRYING TO DO A POOR PEOPLE’S
CAMPAIGN.
HE WAS KILLED BEFORE HE COULD
GET TO WASHINGTON WITH IT.
20 YEARS LATER, JESSE JACKSON
TRIED TO DO IT WITH THE RAINBOW
COALITION.
ISN’T IT PART OF THE TRICK OF
THOSE TO PIT PEOPLE AGAINST EACH
OTHER?
WELL, BLACKS HAVE YOUR JOBS OR
IMMIGRANTS OR LATINOS OR WOMEN,
RATHER THAN SEEING A COMMON NEED
TO COME TOGETHER AGAINST THOSE
THAT EXPLOIT AND EXCLUDE ALL OF
US
US.
>> 100%.
I THOUGHT ABOUT DR. KING SO MUCH
WHILE WRITING THIS BOOK.
DR. KING APPEALED TO THE COMMON
HUMANITY IN ALL AMERICANS.
AND BY DOING SO, HE WAS ABLE TO
BRING THE NATION ALONG TO A
PLACE THAT MAYBE WE WEREN’T AT
THE TIME.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE A SITUATION
WHERE THE ELITES FOMENT THAT
DIVISION EXACTLY LIKE YOU SAY,
BECAUSE THEY GET A LOT OF POWER
OUT OF DOING THAT WHEN THE TRUTH
IS THAT 70% OF AMERICANS WHO ARE
WORKING CLASS AND MIDDLE CLASS
AGREE ON THE ISSUES.
THEY AGREE ON AFFORDABLE,
DIGNIFIED HEALTH CARE.
THE FIRST PARTY TO GET TO THAT
PLACE OF STRONG IMMIGRATION
CONTROL AND EXPANDED HEALTH CARE
ACCESS IS GOING TO HAVE A RULING
MAJORITY, I BELIEVE.
>> I THINK THE ISSUE THAT
IMMIGRATION REALLY HIGHLIGHTS
IS, LIKE PROTESTS REGARDING
WHAT’S GOING ON IN ISRAEL, LIKE
INFLATION, IT IS ALSO A PROXY
FOR THINGS SEEMING OUT OF
CONTROL AND THE WORKING CLASS
FEELING AS IF THERE’S JUST TOO
MUCH THAT ISN’T BEING DEALT WITH
THAT SUGGESTS THEIR LIVES AREN’T
IN THE KIND OF CONTROL THEY’D
LIKE TO SEE.
NOT ADDRESSING IMMIGRATION AND
BEING PASSIVE ON THAT ISSUE
REALLY CONTRIBUTES TO THAT.
UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN PEOPLE FEEL THINGS ARE OUT OF CONTROL, WE
KNOW FROM HISTORY THAT’S WHEN
AUTHORITATIVE PEOPLE HAVE
APPEAL.
>> THANK YOU BOTH.
KATTY KAY, SUCH AN IMPORTANT
CONVERSATION, ONE THAT REALLY
SHAPES TODAY’S POLITICS.
>> SUPER IMPORTANT AND SUPER
HARD FOR THE WHITE HOUSE, IT
SEEMS, TO TRY AND GET ITS HANDS
AROUND IT.
I WAS STRUCK BY ONE THING THE PRESIDENT SAID ABOUT JAPAN AND
INDIA WHERE HE CALLED THEM ZEE
THEM XENOPHOBIC.
>> WE’VE SEEN REPEATEDLY
CAMPAIGN JOE SEEMS TO MAKE
PROBLEMS FOR FOREIGN POLICY JOE.
BUT HE’S RIGHT THAT WE’RE
DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF OTHER
COUNTRIES THAT AREN’T OPEN TO
IMMIGRATION.
BUT THE CASE HAS TO BE MADE
ECONOMICALLY, THE FACT THAT WE
NEED IMMIGRANTS IN ORDER TO DO
JOBS THAT FRANKLY OTHERWISE
WOULD BE UNFILLED IN ORDER TO
KEEP THE ECONOMY MOVING AND THE
POPULATION GROWING.
WE’RE HAVE AN ISSUE WITH
POPULATION BEGINNING TO TAPER
OFF WITHOUT THE INFLUX OF PEOPLE
WE’VE HISTORICALLY HAD.
THOSE ARE ISSUES HE HAS TO BE
ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE IF HE WANTS TO GET
PROGRESS ON IMMIGRATION.
>> THERE ARE AREAS IN THE
COUNTRY WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF
IMMIGRANTS, WHETHER LEGAL OR
ILLEGAL, AND THE ECONOMY SEEMS