WEBVTT

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>> DONALD TRUMP’S WAY TO PUBLIC

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>> DONALD TRUMP’S WAY TO PUBLIC

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WAR AGAINST LAW ENFORCEMENT AND

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THE PROSECUTORS WHO HAVE

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INDICTED HIM.

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HE HAS TARGETED D.A. FANI

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WILLIS, CALLING HER A FAILED

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D.A. FROM ATLANTA, WHERE

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WAITERS AND CRIMES SOAR.

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WILLIS SAYS SHE HAS FACED

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RACISM FROM TRUMP SUPPORTERS

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AND YESTERDAY TRUMP USED THE

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WORD RIGORS, OF COURSE RHYMES

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WITH SOMETHING ELSE AND PERHAPS

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THAT WITH THE POINT.

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DESPITE MULTIPLE ORDERS NOT TO

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TRUMP HAS CONTINUED THESE

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ATTACKS AND NOW THEY’RE A LIFE

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CONSEQUENCES.

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TODAY WOMAN IN TEXAS WAS

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ARRESTED FOR THREATENING THE

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JUDGE OVERSEEING THE 2020

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ELECTION CASE AGAINST TRUMP.

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SHE CALLED JUDGE CHUTKAN A

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STUPID SLAVE, THREATENING TO

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KILL JUDGE CHUTKAN.

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WE OUGHT YOU ARE IN OUR SITE,

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WE WILL KILL YOU IF TRUMP

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DOESN’T GET ELECTED IN 2024, SO

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TREAD LIGHTLY.

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SHE ENDED WITH A WORD THAT ENDS

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WITH WHICH AND A WORD THAT ENDS

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WITH RIGOR.

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THIS WAS AFTER --

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KILLED UTAH MAN WHO WAS

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THREATENING TO KILL BIDEN AND

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ALVIN BRAGG.

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JOINING NOW ME TO DISCUSS ALL

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THIS IS MICHELLE GOLDBERG, NEW

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YORK TIMES COLUMNIST AND AN

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MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR.

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MICHELLE, IT IS SO TERRIBLY

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DISTRESSING AND SO COMPLETELY

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AND SURPRISING THAT THIS IS THE

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SORT OF HARVEST OF ALL THE

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THREATS THE TRUMP HAS MADE

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ONLINE.

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CAN WE SEE THIS AS ANYTHING

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OTHER THAN OUR RESPONSE OR

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EXTENSION OF WHAT TRUMP HAS

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BEEN CALLING FOR ON SOCIAL

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MEDIA?

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>> NO.

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THIS IS BEEN THE PATTERN

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THROUGHOUT HIS PRESIDENCY,

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RIGHT?

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YOU SAW THE ENTIRE TIME THAT HE

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WAS IN OFFICE, HE WOULD MAKE

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THESE THREATS AND SOME OF HIS

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MORE WORSHIP FULL FANS, THE

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PERSON HE SENT MAIL BOMBS TO

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DEMOCRATS AND JOURNALISTS AND

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ALIKE WOULD TRY TO ACT ON THEM.

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AND HE HAS BEEN WARNED OVER

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OVER AN OVER GANDER THAT’S

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WHERE THESE THREATS LEAD, AND

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IT ONLY LEADS HIM TO ESCALATE

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THEM.

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WHAT STRIKES ME IS, HOW PEOPLE

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TALK ABOUT SPECIAL TREATMENT.

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HE IS BEING TREATED WITH SUCH

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KID GLOVES.

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HE IS BEING TREATED SO UNLIKE

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ANY OTHER CRIMINAL DEFENDANT IN

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HIS POSITION, IN THAT THERE HAS

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BEEN, SO FAR, VERY LITTLE

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SANCTION FOR THREATS, WITNESS

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INTIMIDATION,’S INTIMATIONS.

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WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT’S

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HAPPENING IN GEORGIA, GEORGIA’S

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LAW ON BAIL IS IN MY OPINION

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UNREASONABLY STRICT.

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IT PUTS THE BURDEN OF PROOF ON

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THE DEFENDANT TO SHOW THAT THEY

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DON’T POSE A RISK OF WITNESS

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TAMPERING OR OBSTRUCTION OF

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JUSTICE.

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THERE IS NO UNIVERSE IN WHICH

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DONALD TRUMP POSES NO RISK OF

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WITNESS TAMPERING AND

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OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BUT I

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DON’T THINK ANYONE EXPECTS HIM

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TO BE HELD PENDING TRIAL BUT AT

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SOME POINT TO HAS TO BE SOME

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SORT OF SANCTION ARE JUST GONNA

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KEEP ESCALATING.

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>> I THINK IT’S DANGEROUS FOR

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HIM NOT TO FACE SOME KIND OF

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SANCTION.

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THE PROBLEM IS, HONESTLY, THE

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SANCTION, THE FINE IS IT GONNA

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DOING DO, IT MOVING THE TRIAL

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DATE AROUND SEEMS COMPLICATED

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AND IMPOSSIBLE IN THE GEORGIA

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CASE.

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WHAT’S LEFT?

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INCARCERATION.

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AND THEN IT’S WIDELY DISMISSED

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IS IMPOSSIBLE.

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BUT IF TRUMP DOESN’T FACE SOME

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SORT OF SANCTION, IT’S AN

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IMPLICIT ACCEPTANCE THAT TRUMP

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IS GONNA DO WHAT TOMSK TRUMP’S

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GONNA.

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DO >> I THINK IT CERTAINLY HAS

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TO BE, AT LEAST ON THE TABLE,

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IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED

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WITH THE E. JEAN CARROLL

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FOOTAGE, HE GETS, I BELIEVE, A

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5 MILLION-DOLLAR VERDICT FOR

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DEFAMATION AFTER HE’S HELD

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RESPONSIBLE FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT,

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AND BASICALLY THE NEXT DAY HE’S

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BACK TO DEFAMING HER ALL OVER

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AGAIN.

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SO HE IS SOMEONE WHO IS NOT

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GOING TO BE HELD IN CHECK, AND

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IN FACT NOT ONLY IS HE NOT

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GONNA BE HELD IN CHECK BUT

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SEEMS TO PERCEIVE ANY LIMITS AS

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A KIND OF DARE, AS A GOOD TO

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DOUBLE DOWN ON HIS AGGRESSION.

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SO YEAH, I HOPE THERE IS AT

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LEAST, AND I THINK WE SHOULD

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STOP TALKING ABOUT JAIL IS

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UNTHINKABLE AND START SAYING

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THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A

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POINT, AND MAYBE JUDGES SHOULD

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BE CLEAR ABOUT WHERE THAT POINT

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IS, AT WHICH IT WILL BECOME

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INEVITABLE.

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>> I THINK IT’S NOT JUST

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BECAUSE IT’S DONALD TRUMP BUT

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ALSO FOR THE EXAMPLE THAT HE

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SETS TO OTHER WOULD-BE PEOPLE

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WHO EXHIBIT THREATENING

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BEHAVIOR.

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I HAVE TO RECALL THE VIDEO WE

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JUST PLAYED RONNY JACKSON.

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A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN OUT

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THERE BE RATING LAW ENFORCEMENT,

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CALLING THEM ANY NAMES UNDER

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THE SUN, AND THEN

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SIMULTANEOUSLY AUDACIOUSLY HAS

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THE CHUTZPAH, I DON’T KNOW WHAT

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YOU WOULD CALL, IT EMBRACES THE

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HYPOCRISY OF SAYING HE SOMEBODY

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WHO BACKS THE BLUE.

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HE’S A LAW AND ORDER GUY.

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THE FALLACY OF THAT LINE, OF

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THAT POSITION, IS REVEALED SO

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ACUTELY IN MOMENTS LIKE THIS.

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AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS

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REPETITIVE, I THINK IT REALLY

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BEARS MENTIONING.

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WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT COMES FOR

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YOU, THERE’S NO BACKING THE

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BLOW.

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>> I DON’T THINK THAT’S WHAT

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BACK IN THE BLUE MEANS.

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BACKING THE BLUE IS BASICALLY,

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IN THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE TO

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USE THAT PHRASE, MEANS THAT THE

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LAW SHOULD BE A KIND OF

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PRAETORIAN GUARD AGAINST A

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CERTAIN STRATA OF PEOPLE AND

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THEN IT SHOULD BE BACKED IN

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DOING WHATEVER IT NEEDS TO DO

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TO DEFEND THEM AND THEIR

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PROPERTY.

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IT CERTAINLY DOESN’T MEAN LAW

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AND ORDER IN THE GENERAL SENSE

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OF THE GLOBAL SENSE.

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OTHERWISE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

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WOULD’VE BEEN OUTRAGED OVER

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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CAPITOL

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POLICE ON JANUARY 6TH.

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>> LET’S KEEP IN MIND THE

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GENESIS OF BLACK BACK THE BLUE

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WAS A CONSERVATIVE RESPONSE TO

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THE BLACK LIVES MATTER

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MOVEMENT.

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THERE IS AN IMPLICIT RACE SOLE

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AND RACIST THREAT THAT RUNS

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THROUGH THIS CONFEDERACY OF

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PEOPLE.

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>> THE POLICE ARE NOT SUPPOSED

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TO POLICE THEM.

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THE POLICE ARE SUPPOSED TO

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POLICE THOSE OTHER PEOPLE.

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WHEN THE POLICE AND OUT

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POLICING A DONALD TRUMP OR

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RONNY JACKSON, THEY ARE BY

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DEFINITION, BY THIS DEFINITION,

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STEPPING OUT OF THEIR PROPER

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ROLE.

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>> I DO WONDER, BETWEEN JANUARY

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SIX AND DEFUND THE FBI, WHETHER

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LAW ENFORCEMENT PROPER, AS AN

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INSTITUTION, BEGINS TO BREAK

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WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IF

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IT CONTINUES TO BE HEADED BY

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SOMEONE LIKE DONALD TRUMP, WHO

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HIMSELF IS FACING MULTIPLE

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CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS, IS TO

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PROSECUTOR,’S LAW FORSMAN

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OFFICIALS, AND IS ACCUSING

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BASICALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF

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JUSTICE OF BEING A WING OF THE

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DEEP STATE.

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DO YOU JUST THINK THE

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INSTITUTIONAL DESIRES OF LAW

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ENFORCEMENT ARE TOO CLOSELY

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ALIGNED WITH THE REPUBLICAN

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PARTY NO MATTER HOW VITRIOLIC

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THE RELATIONSHIP GETS?

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>> YES.

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YES I DO.

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>> FULL STOP, IT’LL NEVER

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HAPPEN.

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>> I’M SURE IT HAPPENS WITH THE

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HIGH-LEVELS PROSECUTORS BUT

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FUNDAMENTALLY THERE ARE PLENTY

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OF, NOT ALL POLICE OBVIOUSLY

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BUT PLENTY OF POLICE WHO ALSO

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SEE THAT KIND OF BACKED THE

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BLUE DEFINITION OF THEIR ROLE,

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AS TO KIND OF PROTECT THE

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DONALD TRUMP’S OF THE WORLD AS

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OPPOSED TO PROTECT THE WORLD

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FROM DOWNTOWN.

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>> I JUST WONDER IF THE

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BANKRUPTCY, IF HE’S ACTUALLY

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CONVICTED, WHETHER THE

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REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN SAY

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WITHOUT EVEN A GLIMMER OF A

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SMILE ON ITS FACE THAT IT’S

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TRUE THE PARTY OF LAW AND

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ORDER.

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>> IT HASN’T BEEN THE PARTY OF

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ORDER SINCE RICHARD NIXON.

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>> BUT THE FRONT RUNNER OF

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THEIR PARTY FOR THE NOMINATION

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MAY BE A CONVICT AT ONE POINT.

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>> RIGHT.

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WELL HE IS CHARGED WITH 91

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FELONIES.

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HE HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF

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SEXUAL ASSAULT.

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WHILE NOT GUILTY ABOUT

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RESPONSIBLE FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT.

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HIS COMPANY HAS IS ABOUT TO BE

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TRIED, I DON’T EVEN REMEMBER

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OFFHAND, --

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>> THERE’S A LOT.

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>> ALL KINDS OF LAYERS OF FRAUD.

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NOBODY BELIEVES THAT DONALD

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TRUMP IS A RULE FOLLOWER.

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BUT HE PRESERVES A CERTAIN

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HIERARCHY.

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>> HE SURE DOES.

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MICHELLE GOLDBERG, NO BETTER