WEBVTT

00:01.587 --> 00:02.986
THIS INDICTMENT, BUT A WHOLE LOT

00:02.987 --> 00:05.174
MORE QUESTIONS REMAIN

00:05.175 --> 00:06.088
UNANSWERED.

00:06.099 --> 00:08.606
>> TO FORMER GEORGIA LIEUTENANT

00:08.607 --> 00:10.178
GOVERNOR GEOFF DUNCAN TESTIFIED

00:10.189 --> 00:11.800
BEFORE THE GRAND JURY YESTERDAY

00:11.802 --> 00:13.552
DESPITE WARNINGS FROM DONALD

00:13.554 --> 00:15.503
TRUMP NOT TO DO SO.

00:15.537 --> 00:17.053
AFTERWARD DUNCAN TOLD REPORTERS

00:17.064 --> 00:18.646
THE INVESTIGATION WAS A PIVOT

00:18.657 --> 00:21.026
POINT FOR REPUBLICANS AND THE

00:21.037 --> 00:22.305
COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

00:22.306 --> 00:23.750
>> MY HOPE IS THAT AMERICANS

00:23.784 --> 00:24.429
BELIEVE US.

00:24.440 --> 00:25.621
MY HOPE IS THAT REPUBLICANS

00:25.632 --> 00:27.223
BELIEVE US THAT THIS ELECTION

00:27.234 --> 00:29.098
WAS FAIR AND LEGAL AND I

00:29.132 --> 00:30.984
CERTAINLY THINK THIS IS A PIVOT

00:30.985 --> 00:32.346
POINT FOR US, YOU KNOW, AS A

00:32.347 --> 00:33.463
REPUBLICAN THAT CARES ABOUT THE

00:33.465 --> 00:35.201
FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY THIS IS

00:35.202 --> 00:37.359
OUR MOMENT TO HIT THE RESET

00:37.360 --> 00:39.194
BUTTON, TO LAUNCH INTO A GOP

00:39.205 --> 00:41.252
2.0, ONE THAT FOCUSES ON

00:41.253 --> 00:42.980
POLICIES THAT MATTER NOT LIE,

00:42.981 --> 00:44.792
NOT TWEETS, BUT POLICIES THAT

00:44.793 --> 00:46.337
MATTER, THAT MEET AMERICA AT THE

00:46.338 --> 00:47.979
KITCHEN TABLE AND THAT’S REALLY

00:47.990 --> 00:50.257
WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

00:50.292 --> 00:52.688
>> GENE, THAT’S A REPUBLICAN, A

00:52.689 --> 00:55.356
RISING STAR, FORMER RISING STAR

00:55.357 --> 00:57.157
IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BEFORE

00:57.158 --> 00:58.927
TRUMP HE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE

00:58.938 --> 01:00.454
BEEN THE NEXT GOVERNOR BEFORE

01:00.488 --> 01:02.863
TRUMPISM AFFECTED THE PARTY.

01:02.874 --> 01:04.623
I WAS INTERESTED BY GREG’S

01:04.625 --> 01:06.021
RESPONSE TO MY QUESTION ABOUT

01:06.032 --> 01:07.500
WHY THIS HAPPENED IN FULTON

01:07.535 --> 01:08.954
COUNTY, ONE OF THE MOST

01:08.965 --> 01:09.825
DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES AND, OF

01:09.859 --> 01:11.334
COURSE, HE DID TALK ABOUT THE

01:11.345 --> 01:12.634
REASON WHY, THAT’S BECAUSE

01:12.668 --> 01:14.496
THAT’S WHERE MOST OF THE

01:14.507 --> 01:15.651
ACTIVITY -- ILLEGAL ACTIVITY

01:15.652 --> 01:17.176
TOOK PLACE, BUT THEN HE SAID

01:17.177 --> 01:19.100
SOMETHING ELSE, HE SAID THERE

01:19.135 --> 01:21.772
ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS IN THE

01:21.783 --> 01:24.137
STATE OF GEORGIA THAT ARE JUST

01:24.138 --> 01:25.738
AS DISTURBED BY THIS BEHAVIOR.

01:25.749 --> 01:28.398
USUALLY I’D BE SKEPTICAL BUT

01:28.399 --> 01:30.687
THEN I REMEMBER THE MASSIVE

01:30.721 --> 01:33.516
VICTORY IN THE PRIMARY THAT THE

01:33.527 --> 01:35.751
SECRETARY OF STATE BRAD

01:35.786 --> 01:37.897
RAFFENSPERGER HAD, THE MASSIVE

01:37.908 --> 01:40.392
PRIMARY VICTORY IN THE STATE

01:40.394 --> 01:42.996
THAT THE GEORGIA GOVERNOR HAD

01:42.997 --> 01:44.901
AFTER TRUMP BASICALLY CALLED

01:44.912 --> 01:47.878
THEM ENEMIES ONE AND TWO.

01:47.889 --> 01:50.983
THEY WON IN MASSIVE LANDSLIDES,

01:51.018 --> 01:53.236
WHICH SUGGESTS GEORGIA

01:53.237 --> 01:57.393
REPUBLICANS ARE NOT ALABAMA

01:57.404 --> 01:59.581
REPUBLICANS, ARE NOT OKLAHOMA

01:59.583 --> 02:00.594
REPUBLICANS.

02:00.628 --> 02:03.806
THEY ACTUALLY -- THESE ARE

02:03.817 --> 02:05.861
ENOUGH REPUBLICANS WHO ACTUALLY

02:05.895 --> 02:08.569
SEE WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID AND

02:08.580 --> 02:11.193
BELIEVE THAT IT IS ILLEGAL.

02:11.227 --> 02:14.201
>> YES, REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS IN

02:14.212 --> 02:18.363
GEORGIA FROM THE GOVERNOR DOWN
TO RAFFENSPERGER, GEOFF DUNCAN,

02:18.374 --> 02:20.145
TO RAFFENSPERGER, GEOFF DUNCAN,

02:20.179 --> 02:24.599
GABE STERLING, THEY STOOD FIRM

02:24.610 --> 02:26.698
AGAINST TRUMP’S ATTEMPT TO

02:26.699 --> 02:28.927
OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

02:28.928 --> 02:31.634
THEY STOOD FIRM FOR THE

02:31.635 --> 02:34.667
INTEGRITY OF THE ELECTION, THE

02:34.678 --> 02:36.699
ELECTORAL PROCESS, THEY’VE

02:36.710 --> 02:39.180
REFUSED TO DISENFRANCHISE

02:39.215 --> 02:41.861
GEORGIA VOTERS AND CERTAINLY

02:41.872 --> 02:44.672
SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR THAT,

02:44.707 --> 02:47.592
AND I DON’T KNOW HOW DEEP THAT

02:47.603 --> 02:50.877
GOES IN THE GEORGIA REPUBLICAN

02:50.910 --> 02:54.205
PARTY, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS THERE

02:54.216 --> 02:56.767
AT THE TOP, AND MY QUESTION FOR

02:56.802 --> 02:58.976
JOHN HEILEMANN IS THIS, YOU

02:58.977 --> 03:00.904
KNOW, I WAS WATCHING THE WAIT

03:00.915 --> 03:03.355
AND THEN THE RELEASE OF THE

03:03.366 --> 03:05.286
INDICTMENT LAST NIGHT, AND THERE

03:05.297 --> 03:08.469
WAS ALL THIS SECURITY ON THE

03:08.503 --> 03:10.707
STREETS OF ATLANTA, AND NOBODY

03:10.718 --> 03:12.515
SHOWED UP.

03:12.549 --> 03:15.470
THERE HAVE BEEN NO PRO-TRUMP

03:15.472 --> 03:19.446
CROWDS SHOWING UP AT HIS

03:19.447 --> 03:21.626
INDICTMENTS OR HIS ARRAIGNMENTS.

03:21.637 --> 03:23.771
TO SORT OF INTIMIDATE THE

03:23.782 --> 03:24.957
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OR WHATEVER

03:24.968 --> 03:27.062
THEY WOULD TRY TO DO.

03:27.063 --> 03:29.690
WE JUST HAVEN’T BEEN SEEING

03:29.701 --> 03:33.388
THAT, AND I WONDER, IS THAT --

03:33.399 --> 03:36.254
DOES THIS REPRESENT A KIND OF

03:36.288 --> 03:39.049
FATIGUE OR AM I READING TOO MUCH

03:39.060 --> 03:39.862
INTO THAT?

03:39.873 --> 03:43.286
OBVIOUSLY THE TRUMP FEVER HAS

03:43.321 --> 03:45.293
NOT BROKEN NATIONWIDE, BUT IS

03:45.304 --> 03:49.323
THERE SOMETHING TO THAT THAT

03:49.357 --> 03:52.236
WE’RE NOT SEEING, THIS POPULAR

03:52.247 --> 03:53.510
MOBILIZATION TO DEFEND DONALD

03:53.512 --> 03:54.005
TRUMP?

03:54.040 --> 03:55.872
>> WELL, I MEAN, GENE, I THINK

03:55.883 --> 03:57.045
THERE’S A COUPLE THINGS TO SAY

03:57.046 --> 03:57.821
TO THAT.

03:57.823 --> 03:59.637
ONE IS, AS YOU SAY, IT’S NOT A

03:59.648 --> 04:00.401
NATIONWIDE THING.

04:00.402 --> 04:01.897
YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE TRUMP’S

04:01.908 --> 04:03.511
STRENGTH IN POLLING IS IN THIS

04:03.546 --> 04:05.163
REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FIGHT

04:05.164 --> 04:07.719
WHICH BY ANY RATIONAL METRICS IS

04:07.730 --> 04:09.700
OBVIOUSLY COUNTER TO ANY

04:09.701 --> 04:11.077
REPUBLICAN INTEREST IN WINNING

04:11.088 --> 04:13.016
THE GENERAL ELECTION, BUT THERE

04:13.027 --> 04:14.780
IT IS, HE’S STRONGER -- AS

04:14.791 --> 04:16.244
STRONG AS ANYBODY WHO’S EVER

04:16.278 --> 04:18.410
SOUGHT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION

04:18.421 --> 04:20.450
HAS BEEN AT THIS POINT IN A

04:20.452 --> 04:20.787
CYCLE.

04:20.788 --> 04:22.825
YOU KNOW, I WAS DOWN IN THE

04:22.826 --> 04:24.042
RALLY IN WACO AND THERE’S STILL

04:24.053 --> 04:25.564
A LOT OF FEVER FOR DONALD TRUMP

04:25.575 --> 04:28.325
AND ALSO THIS THING THAT IF YOU

04:28.327 --> 04:29.784
ARE A POTENTIAL BACKER OF THE

04:29.795 --> 04:31.648
PRESIDENT, THE KIND OF PERSON

04:31.682 --> 04:34.669
WHO MIGHT BE INCLINED TOWARDS

04:34.680 --> 04:36.231
VIOLENCE OR TOWARDS UNRULY

04:36.242 --> 04:38.636
PROTEST, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE

04:38.647 --> 04:42.217
EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE’VE SEEN, THE

04:42.228 --> 04:44.338
PROSECUTION OF THE JANUARY 6th

04:44.349 --> 04:46.113
RIOTERS AND PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE

04:46.147 --> 04:48.195
ABOUT THIS THAN I DO BUT IN THE

04:48.196 --> 04:50.191
RIGHT WING CHAT FORUMS A LOT OF

04:50.202 --> 04:52.032
STAY AWAY FROM THESE EVENTS WHEN

04:52.066 --> 04:53.367
HE GETS INDICTED BECAUSE, YOU

04:53.378 --> 04:55.280
KNOW, THE COPS ARE LOOKING TO

04:55.281 --> 04:57.735
TAKE US DOWN, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,

04:57.770 --> 05:01.098
I GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID

05:01.109 --> 05:03.506
A SECOND AGO INTO THE LARGER

05:03.508 --> 05:04.677
QUESTION, WHICH IS IT’S

05:04.678 --> 05:06.385
OBVIOUSLY TRUE WHAT YOU SAID

05:06.386 --> 05:09.040
ABOUT BRIAN KEMP AND ABOUT BRAD

05:09.041 --> 05:11.139
RAFFENSPERGER IN 2022 BUT STEP

05:11.150 --> 05:14.162
UP, SIT BACK FURTHER, 2020, THE

05:14.163 --> 05:15.622
DATA IN 2020 WAS INCREDIBLY

05:15.623 --> 05:17.189
COMPELLING IN GEORGIA WHERE THE

05:17.200 --> 05:19.190
PRESIDENT AT THE TIME, DONALD

05:19.225 --> 05:20.197
TRUMP, UNDERPERFORMED

05:20.208 --> 05:22.000
REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE STATE.

05:22.034 --> 05:25.482
HE WAS -- YOU HAD STATE, YOU HAD

05:25.483 --> 05:26.721
REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN, STATE

05:26.732 --> 05:28.153
LEGISLATORS, CARL ROVE HAS

05:28.155 --> 05:29.732
INCREDIBLE DEPTH ON THIS

05:29.743 --> 05:32.475
QUESTION WHEN HE TRIES TO MAKE

05:32.477 --> 05:34.337
THE ARGUMENT FOR WHY TRUMP IS UN

05:34.338 --> 05:34.671
UNELECTABLE.

05:34.672 --> 05:36.663
YOU BELIEVE IN 2024 IT’S BECAUSE

05:36.674 --> 05:39.303
OF THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ALL

05:39.304 --> 05:41.086
THOSE COBB COUNTY REPUBLICANS IN

05:41.087 --> 05:42.593
GEORGIA WHO ARE EMBARRASSED BY

05:42.594 --> 05:44.596
DONALD TRUMP, WHO DIDN’T WANT

05:44.607 --> 05:47.208
HIM IN 2020 AND IT’S HARD TO

05:47.242 --> 05:48.560
BELIEVE THAT THOSE SUBURBAN

05:48.562 --> 05:49.946
REPUBLICANS WHO TURNED AWAY FROM

05:49.957 --> 05:51.889
TRUMP STUCK WITH THE REPUBLICAN

05:51.890 --> 05:54.429
PARTY, STUCK WITH KEMP, STUCK

05:54.440 --> 05:56.020
WITH RAFFENSPERGER LATER, THOSE

05:56.031 --> 05:57.148
SUBURBAN REPUBLICANS NOW

05:57.149 --> 05:58.623
WITNESSING THIS SPECTACLE ARE

05:58.658 --> 06:00.862
GOING TO BE MORE INCLINED TO

06:00.863 --> 06:02.982
VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP IN 2024

06:02.993 --> 06:05.461
THAN THEY WERE IN 2020, IN FACT,

06:05.472 --> 06:06.570
PROBABLY ALMOST CERTAINLY

06:06.581 --> 06:08.241
THEY’LL BE LESS INCLINED AND

06:08.276 --> 06:09.941
ANOTHER REASON WHY DONALD TRUMP

06:09.942 --> 06:11.631
MAY -- NEVER SAY NEVER BUT, MAN,

06:11.632 --> 06:13.016
IT’S GOING TO BE REALLY HARD FOR

06:13.017 --> 06:14.650
DONALD TRUMP TO WIN GEORGIA AND

06:14.661 --> 06:17.612
WITHOUT GEORGIA, VERY HARD TO

06:17.646 --> 06:19.649
BECOME A REPUBLICAN WHO WINS 270

06:19.650 --> 06:20.440
ELECTORAL VOTES.

06:20.451 --> 06:23.920
>> WELL, AND, MIKA, IF YOU LOOK

06:23.931 --> 06:25.916
AT THE HISTORY OF GEORGIA SINCE

06:25.927 --> 06:28.127
2020, IT SQUARES UP, AGAIN, I

06:28.138 --> 06:30.073
KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T LIKE

06:30.075 --> 06:31.104
ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IN POLITICS,

06:31.138 --> 06:31.969
I DO.

06:31.980 --> 06:36.424
I LIVE BY IT FROM THE FIRST DOOR

06:36.458 --> 06:38.552
I KNOCKED ON BACK IN JANUARY OF

06:38.553 --> 06:39.251
1994.

06:39.262 --> 06:40.380
>> YEAH.

06:40.381 --> 06:43.465
>> I’VE HEARD FROM A GOOD NUMBER

06:43.500 --> 06:46.554
OF PEOPLE I KNOW IN THE SUBURBS

06:46.565 --> 06:48.975
OF ATLANTA THAT THEY JUST WILL

06:49.010 --> 06:50.532
NOT VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

06:50.543 --> 06:52.315
THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN

06:52.326 --> 06:54.103
AND THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR A

06:54.114 --> 06:55.492
DEMOCRAT, BUT THEY WILL NOT

06:55.493 --> 06:57.546
NEVER VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND

06:57.557 --> 07:00.126
YOU LOOK BACK AT THE HISTORY,

07:00.160 --> 07:02.852
NOT ONLY OF BRIAN KEMP AND BRAD

07:02.863 --> 07:05.364
RAFFENSPERGER DOING SO WELL IN

07:05.375 --> 07:07.959
THE PRIMARY, BUT LOOK WHAT

07:07.970 --> 07:10.688
GEORGIA VOTERS DID IN 2020.

07:10.699 --> 07:14.954
THEY ELECTED ONE OF THE MOST

07:14.956 --> 07:17.435
PROGRESSIVE MEMBERS TO THE

07:17.436 --> 07:18.825
UNITED STATES SENATE FROM

07:18.836 --> 07:20.486
GEORGIA.

07:20.520 --> 07:25.341
THEY ELECTED WARNOCK WHEN SENATE

07:25.342 --> 07:29.083
CONTROL WAS ON THE LINE.

07:29.084 --> 07:31.687
THEY STAYED HOME BECAUSE THEY

07:31.689 --> 07:34.171
HAD CONTEMPT FOR DONALD TRUMP,

07:34.182 --> 07:36.991
WHO REALLY GOT IN THE WAY OF

07:36.992 --> 07:40.144
THAT RACE IN PARTICULAR AND THEN

07:40.155 --> 07:42.613
YOU LOOK AT ’22, THE SAME THING

07:42.648 --> 07:44.528
HAPPENED AND NOT ONLY DID THEY

07:44.530 --> 07:45.868
REJECT DONALD TRUMP IN THE 2020

07:45.869 --> 07:46.843
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION BECAUSE

07:46.854 --> 07:48.773
THEY STAYED HOME, THEY DID IT

07:48.808 --> 07:51.612
WITH THOSE TWO SENATE RACES,

07:51.623 --> 07:56.007
THEY DID IT AGAIN AND STAYED

07:56.018 --> 07:58.279
HOME WHEN DONALD TRUMP TAPPED

07:58.290 --> 07:58.713
HEFSH

07:58.747 --> 08:01.268
HERSCHEL WALKER TO BE HIS HAND

08:01.270 --> 08:03.209
APPOINTED CANDIDATE IN ’22 SO

08:03.220 --> 08:05.033
WE’VE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME

08:05.035 --> 08:08.064
AGAIN, REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE

08:08.075 --> 08:10.834
OF GEORGIA, AGAIN, NOT GOING

08:10.845 --> 08:13.629
LEFT, JUST NOT GOING TOWARD