WEBVTT

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4:00, WHEN HE WENT OUT TO GO TO

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THE ROSE GARDEN, TO FILM HIS

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NOW INFAMOUS GO HOME MESSAGE.

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WAS PAT CIPOLLONE A TOP WHITE

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HOUSE LAWYER.

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HERE’S WHAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT

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HIS REACTION TO SEEING THE

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VIOLENCE, AND HIS ADVICE

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THROUGHOUT THE AFTERNOON.

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>> WHEN DID YOU FIRST REALIZED

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THAT THERE WAS ACTUAL VIOLENCE

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OR RIOTING AT THE CAPITOL?

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>> I FIRST REALIZED THAT IT MAY

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HAVE BEEN ON TELEVISION, OR IT

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MAY HAVE BEEN TONY, OR IT MAY

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HAVE BEEN PHILBIN.

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I FOUND OUT THAT PEOPLE WERE

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THEY WEREN’T THE CAPITAL YET,

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BUT THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, AND

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THEN I STARTED WATCHING IT.

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AND, YOU KNOW, THAN I WAS AWARE

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OF IT.

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>> WHAT SPECIFICALLY DID YOU

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THINK NEEDED TO HAPPEN?

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>> I MADE VERY CLEAR THAT THERE

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NEEDS TO BE AN IMMEDIATE AND

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FORCEFUL RESPONSE STATEMENT,

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PUBLIC STATEMENT THAT PEOPLE

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NEED TO LEAVE THE CAPITOL NOW.

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>> IT SOUNDS LIKE, FROM THE

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VERY ONSET OF VIOLENCE AT THE

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CAPITOL, AROUND 2:00, PUSHING

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FOR A STRONG STATEMENT THAT THE

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PEOPLE SHOULD LEAVE THE

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CAPITOL.

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IS THAT RIGHT?

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>> I WAS --

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>> THAT, YOU SAID THAT YOU

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EXPRESSED YOUR OPINION

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FORCEFULLY.

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COULD YOU TELL US EXACTLY HOW

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YOU DID THAT?

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>> YEAH, I CAN’T.

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I’M GOING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW --

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ON THE PRIVILEGE ISSUE, I CAN

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TALK ABOUT CONVERSATIONS WITH

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THE PRESIDENT.

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BUT I CAN GENERICALLY SAY THAT

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I SAID, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE NEED

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TO BE TOLD.

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THERE NEEDS TO BE A PUBLIC

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ANNOUNCEMENT, FAST, THAT THEY

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NEED TO LEAVE THE CAPITOL.

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>> AND PAT, COULD YOU LET US

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KNOW APPROXIMATELY WHEN YOU

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SAID THAT?

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>> APPROXIMATELY WHEN?

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ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER I

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FOUND OUT PEOPLE WERE GETTING

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INTO THE CAPITAL, OR

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APPROACHING THE CAPITOL IN A

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WAY THAT WAS VIOLENT.

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>> DO YOU REMEMBER ANY

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DISCUSSION WITH MARK MEADOWS,

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WITH RESPECT TO HIS VIEW THAT

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THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T WANT TO DO

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ANYTHING, OR WAS SOMEHOW

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RESISTANT TO WANTING TO SAY

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SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES THAT

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YOU SUGGESTED?

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>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, MANY

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PEOPLE SUGGESTED IT.

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NOT JUST ME, BUT MANY PEOPLE
FELT THE SAME WAY.

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FELT THE SAME WAY.

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I’M SURE I HAD CONVERSATIONS

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WITH MARK ABOUT THIS THING

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DURING THE COURSE OF THE DAY,

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EXPRESSED MY OPINION VERY

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FORCEFULLY THAT THIS NEEDS TO

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BE DONE.

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>> SO YOUR ADVICE WITH TELL

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PEOPLE TO LEAVE THE CAPITOL,

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AND THAT TOOK OVER TWO HOURS,

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WHEN THERE WERE SUBSEQUENT

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STATEMENTS MADE, TWEETS PUT

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FORTH, THAT INTERVIEWER

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INSUFFICIENT.

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DID YOU CONTINUE, MR. CIPOLLONE,

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THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD OF THAT

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TIME, UP UNTIL 4:17, DID YOU

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CONTINUE AND OTHERS TO PUSH FOR

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A STRONGER STATEMENT?

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>> YES.

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>> WHERE YOU JOINED IN THAT BY

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IVANKA TRUMP AND ERIC

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HERSCHMANN AND MARK MEADOWS?

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>> YES.

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>> THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL

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ALWAYS WANTED THERE TO BE A

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STRONG --

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CONDEMNED THE RIOTERS.

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I’M CONFIDENT IN THAT.

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I’M CONFIDENT THAT IVANKA TRUMP

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WANTED THERE TO BE A STRONG

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STATEMENT TO CONDEMN THE

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RIOTERS BUT.

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I DON’T KNOW THE PRIVATE

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CONVERSATIONS SHE HAD WITH MR.

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TRUMP, BUT I REMEMBER WHEN SHE

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CAME TO THE OFFICE ONE DIME, TO

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THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL’S

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OFFICE, WHEN SHE CAME TO SEE

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THE CHIEF OF STAFF OFFICE, THE

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WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL’S OFFICE,

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SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE

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SPEECH LATER THAT DAY, AND

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TRYING TO GET HER WITH DAWN ON

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BOARD WITH SAYING SOMETHING

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THAT WAS MORE DIRECT THAN HE

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HAD WANTED TO AT THE TIME AND

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THROUGHOUT THE AFTERNOON.

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>> I THINK MARK ALSO I --

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REMEMBER HIM GETTING IVANKA

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INVOLVED.

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IT’S LIKE, GET IVANKA DOWN

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HERE.

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HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE

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IMPORTANT.

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I DON’T THINK JARRED WAS THERE

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IN THE MORNING, BUT I THINK HE

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CAME LATER.

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I REMEMBER THINKING IT WAS

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IMPORTANT TO GET HIM IN THERE

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TOO.

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AND OF COURSE, THAT PHILBIN,

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WHO WAS EXPRESSING THE SAME

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THINGS.

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I MEAN, PAT PHILBIN, YOU KNOW,

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WAS VERY, AS I SAID, I DON’T

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THINK THERE WAS ONE OF THESE

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MEETINGS WHERE THERE MIGHT HAVE

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BEEN, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, I

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REMEMBER THAT BOTH OF US, GOING

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DOWN TOGETHER, GOING BACK,