WEBVTT

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KIRBY TALKING ABOUT BEFORE I

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STARTED HERE.

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>> NBC NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY

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ANALYST, CLINT WATTS, THANK YOU

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VERY MUCH.

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>>> AS FINLAND AND SWEDEN MOVE

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FORWARD WITH POSSIBLE PLANS TO

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JOIN NATO, RUSSIA SAYS IT WOULD

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TRIGGER A DRAMATIC MILITARY

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ESCALATION IN THAT PART OF THE

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WORLD.

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>> MORE THAN THEM?

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I’M SORRY.

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ESCALATE WHAT?

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>> FROM FORMER PRESIDENT AND

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DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF RUSSIA’S

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SECURITY COUNCIL, DMITRY

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MEDVEDEV, WHO ALSO SAID RUSSIA

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WOULD DECIDE TO BRING NUCLEAR

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WEAPONS INTO THE BALTIC.

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"THE TIMES" OF LONDON REPORTED

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THIS WEEK THAT FINLAND AND

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SWEDEN COULD APPLY FOR A NATO

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MEMBERSHIP THIS SUMMER.
LET’S BRING IN FORMER U.S.

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LET’S BRING IN FORMER U.S.

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AMBASSADOR TO NATO, IVO DOLDER.

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WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

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ARE WE CONFRONTING SOME PROBLEMS

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WITH NATO’S SORT OF OPEN-DOOR

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POLICY IF MORE AND MORE

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COUNTRIES ARE SORT OF THREATENED

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AGAINST JOINING, INCLUDING YOUR

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COUNTRY?

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>> THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS

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THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS BEEN

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HOLDING UP AS THE REASON FOR

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BRUTALLY AND UNPROVOKEDLY

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INVADING UKRAINE.

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IT IS RIDICULOUS TO THINK THAT

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THIS IS ABOUT NATO.

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IT’S WHEN THE COUNTRIES ARE PART

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OF NATO THAT THEY’RE MORE LIKELY

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TO BE SKEWER.

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THE IDEA OF EMPLOYING NUCLEAR

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WEAPONS IN THE BALTIC IS NOT

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SOMETHING NEW.

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IN A SMALL PART OF RUSSIAN

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TERRITORY CALLED KALININGRAD,

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IT’S LONG BEEN SUSPECTED THEY

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HAVE THOSE WEAPONS AND HAVE BEEN

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THERE FOR A LONG TIME.

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FINLAND AND SWEDEN DECIDED THEY

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CAN NO LONGER STAND BY, THEIR

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SECURITY NEEDS TO BE GUARANTEED

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BY BEING MEMBERS OF NATO.

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WE’RE LIKELY TO SEE AN

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APPLICATION IN THE COMING WEEK

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BASE THEM TO JOIN NATO.

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IT’S NOT CLEAR WHAT THE RUSSIANS

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CAN DO AGAINST THAT.

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ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO INVADE

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FINLAND?

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REMEMBER IN WORLD WAR II THAT

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DIDN’T END VERY WELL FOR THE

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RUXS.

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THEY COULD BARELY DO A GOOD JOB

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IN UKRAINE, IN FACT, LOSE THERE.

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HOW MANY WARS DO THEY WANT TO

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START AND LOSE?

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AS A RESULT I THINK FINLAND AND

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SWEDEN ARE RIGHT TO THINK THEIR

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FUTURE NOW LIES WITH NATO.

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IN FACT, IT WAS THE ABSENCE OF

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NATO

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NATO IN UKRAINE THAT MAY HAVE

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CAUSED THIS WAR IN THE FIRST

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PLACE.

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>> YOU’RE SO RIGHT.

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GIVEN THE SOVIETS’ HISTORY WITH

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FINLAND IN THE WINTER WAR, I

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SUSPECT THERE’S NOT GOING TO BE

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A REAL DESIRE TO GO BACK IN

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THERE.

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LET’S TALK ABOUT, GIVEN

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FINLAND’S HISTORY AND SO-CALLED

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FINLANDIZATION OF THAT COUNTRY

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THROUGH THE YEARS, SWEDEN

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OBVIOUSLY BECOMING A MEMBER OF

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NATO WOULD BE DRAMATIC, BUT JUST

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TALK ABOUT HOW SIGNIFICANT

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FINLAND’S ENTRANCE INTO NATO

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WOULD BE FOR THE ALLIANCE.

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>> IT WOULD BE VERY, VERY

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SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE FINLAND AND

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SWEDEN ARE EXTRAORDINARILY

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CAPABLE MILITARIES.

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THEY HAVE LONG HAD DURING THE

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COLD WAR A POSTURE OF ARMED

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NEUTRALITY, NOT UNARMED

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NEUTRALITY.

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AND FOR LAST 30 YEARS THEY’VE

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CONTINUED TO BUILD UP THEIR

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MILITARIES VERY SIGNIFICANTLY.

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THEY HAVE BEEN CLOSE PARTNERS

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ALIGNED WITH NATO IN A SERIES OF

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MILITARY OPERATIONS FROM

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AFGHANISTAN TO LIBYA TO THE

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BALKANS.

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THEY KNOW HOW TO OPERATE WITHIN

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NATO.

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THEIR WEAPONS ARE COMPATIBLE.

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THEIR COMMAND AND CONTROL

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STRUCTURE ALLOWS FOR EASY

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COMMUNICATION BETWEEN SWEDISH

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AND FINNISH FORCES AND NATO.

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AND, OF COURSE, NOW, IF THEY

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BECOME NATO, NOT ONLY NATO NEEDS

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TO DEFEND THEM BUT THEY WILL

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NEED TO DEFEND NATO COUNTRIES,

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INCLUDING THE BALTIC COUNTRIES,

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WHICH ARE VERY EXPOSED TO THE

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POSSIBILITY OF A RUSSIAN

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ADVANCE.

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FINLAND, OF COURSE, IS JUST A

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HOP AND SKIP ACROSS THE BALTIC

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SEA.

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SWEDEN IS CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH

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THEM AS WELL.

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SO IT WOULD ENHANCE THE CAPACITY

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OF NATO DEFEND ITSELF IN A VERY

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SIGNIFICANT WAY.

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THIS IS A MOVE THAT VLADIMIR

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PUTIN CANNOT HAVE DREAMT OF.

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HE THOUGHT THAT NATO WAS TOO

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CLOSE TO RUSSIAN BORDERS.

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WELL, WHEN YOU START INVADING

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COUNTRIES, NATO WILL COME

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CLOSER.

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FOR UKRAINE IT ALSO MEANS THAT

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THIS IDEA THAT UKRAINE WILL BE

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BETTER OFF IF IT WERE

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FINLANDIZED, AN IDEA THAT MANY

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PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT ONLY

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WEEKS AGO, TURNS OUT THAT

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FINLAND WANTS TO BE NATO-IZED IN

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ORDER TO PREVENT EXACTLY THAT